Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

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scorch
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Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

Postby scorch » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:08 pm

Since you have to buy the bombs and such on Android and IOS, when the bombs become available on the PC version, will they be free or will they have to be purchased?

Also, is there a chance C30/ZOS could be on Steam as well?

Cheers.
You must either conquer and rule or serve and lose, suffer or triumph, be the anvil or the hammer

- Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe, German writer and polymath

headhunter211
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Re: Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

Postby headhunter211 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:17 am

I like the Idea that if its on Steam then its a one time buy type of deal, I wouldn't support it if I had to pay .99 cents for bombs within a game I've already payed for. in fact I don't support it in the IOS or Android version either. I think a much better plan for Saxon would be to have actual dlc for a pc release, i.e. develop the game mechanics so theres more content, because thats what people want. He's already started with the mission objectives, add more and create mini campaigns that unlock something at the end of the play through to be used in the full game and sim version, like a special gun or character. Release themed skins if need be perhaps different sprites or gun effects or insane difficulty settings. But don't lock out military or police for your audience as a lot of people would probably enjoy playing as them and Saxon would probably get a pretty big back lash if he started erecting pay walls. Sorry for the rambling just putting in my two cents.
Hearts are wasted, lives are broken, and people go missing.

scorch
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Re: Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

Postby scorch » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:39 pm

Yeah I agree entirely with you, I normally wouldn't spend a dime on on-line no download PC games but should Saxon put C3O on Steam I would happily make an exception with C30. I don't even support the game on mobile devices since I have an old for emergency's only 2005 £5 phone which doesn't even have apps. But yeah, as long as Saxon doesn't try to milk the game to much (damn you Activision, EA and Treyarch!) I'd happily spend money.

For example, there is an app called "Plaugue Inc" which is a decent game, now the developer has started to make a second version for Steam, and it looks totally amazing and more value for money compared the mobile version, and much more popular, if that developer can do that, then I'm sure Saxon can as well.
You must either conquer and rule or serve and lose, suffer or triumph, be the anvil or the hammer

- Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe, German writer and polymath

Smerg
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Re: Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

Postby Smerg » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:11 am

I don't think they can put a game based off of google maps on steam...or sell it at all.
"If all else fails: duck. As a method of defense it's unreliable, but incredibly reassuring for a second or two." - Unknown

headhunter211
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Re: Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

Postby headhunter211 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:31 pm

Well, maybe in the future Saxon will ditch google maps and go for handcrafted maps. I mean google maps are blurry and low quality and everything is out of proportion. It would allow a lot more flexibility with what he added if he had his own maps, this could allow for vehicles and such as people would no longer be the size of cars.
Hearts are wasted, lives are broken, and people go missing.

coinsruledude
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Re: Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

Postby coinsruledude » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:49 pm

The majority of maps are decent quality and perfectly playable (as long as the creator gave at least half of a ****), and with all the work he's been doing to integrate Google Maps, I don't see why Saxon would ditch them in the near future.
"You can only talk rubbish if you're aware of knowledge." ~Karl Pilkington
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headhunter211
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Re: Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

Postby headhunter211 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:38 pm

Blurry buildings, unusual lighting, dark areas unable to be properly mapped, people the size of cars, unsure obstacles, and yes like you said, undedicated map creators. Hes also using JAVA, if he switched to a more powerful engine and created a map maker it would allow for the community to still create maps while allowing for better development, graphics(although I kind of like them now), and allow for stable maps. Right now all of the maps on the world map are subject to change by google. I just checked mine and every single one of them had changed, I had to scratch everything a re-do them, you wouldn't have this problem with a standalone release with the software to create maps and levels and story lines. I'm not saying near future either, I'm saying in a few years I would hope Saxon would look at the possibility, because if he doesn't then he's gonna need to sift through all of those maps and find the corrupt ones or find someone to do that. Also I still have maps waiitng to be moderated and they've been there for a while, again with a standalone game on steam you could download maps via workshop which allows for peer review and scrutiny by the community.
Hearts are wasted, lives are broken, and people go missing.

Saxon
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Re: Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

Postby Saxon » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:12 pm

Hi,

My goals are:

- Make a fun game
- Have fun making it
- Earn enough to be able to afford to keep making it

So my strategy is basically to try to charge for whatever makes sense, and then see if it works :) This varies by platform.

Using Google Maps means that I can't charge for the web version of the game. Google only allows use of their maps if the website is freely available (unless I buy a business license from Google, which is about $10k per year). However Google do allow mobile apps to charge money. So the approach I'm using at the moment is to make the web version free, and to earn income from the mobile apps to support both the mobile and web versions.

A second factor to consider are the games themselves. Although ZOS is a pretty simple game (more of a toy, really), I think it does what it offers, and so I think it's fair to charge for that. However C3O is still very much in beta. Although the basic idea of editing maps works, the actual gameplay itself is extremely limited. To make this feel like a real game worth charging for, I think it would need to offer a lot more. In the long term I'd like to use the web version of C3O to prototype new gameplay, and then release that on mobiles and charge for it there.

The third factor to consider is what people are willing to pay for. Two years ago when ZOS was released on iOS, it made sense to charge $1 up front. Later we released a free version with limited functionality, with an upgrade to get the full functionality. These days paid up front mobile games are extremely rare, especially on Android, where I think around 98% of revenue comes from in-app purchases. So ZOS on Android is going to be free to trial with an in-app upgrade to the full version. As another example, initially we tried charging for using bombs on iOS (eg you could buy X bombs for $Y, then when you ran out, you had to buy more). In hindsight this was a terrible idea, and eventually I removed it and made them free. I presume in the future I will try other dumb ideas for making money, and then remove them when they don't work :)

On the web, people generally expect games to be free, and so I'll likely stick to free as well. I may consider a freemium approach (if I decide it's worth giving Google $10k), so you'd be able to play for free, but have the option of paying for certain features. I wouldn't want this to become a paywall or a "pay to win", I'd want it to be something people wanted to do. For example if there's some cool gun available, you could either play the game until you 'earn' the gun, or 'cheat' and just buy it. However this of course requires a lot more gameplay to exist for it to even make sense. Right now there is no cool gun, and even if there was, there'd be no reason to buy it :)

On the Google Maps angle, I am frequently torn :) I think it provides an interesting angle, which makes the game unique and so worth noticing (eg, there are over a million games on each of the iOS and Android app stores - it's impossible to stand out). Playing games in real locations makes it more interesting. However Google Maps also makes everything harder. I've just spent the last few weeks hacking up the game to keep it working, because Google shut down their Flash API (details here: http://www.binaryspacegames.com/2014/09 ... eak-alive/). Getting the game working with Google maps on both iOS and Android has been technically difficult, and I even had to do it twice on iOS when Apple took out Google Maps and then Google later released their own iOS SDK. Editing maps also becomes more of a boring exercise of tracing what's on the ground, rather than a creative exercise of building a custom scenario. And the varying image quality is also an issue, especially when Google update their maps and everything moves, which is especially annoying when the new maps are worse quality than the old ones!

So anyway, to actually answer the original questions:

- Bombs on the web version will be free. Although I expect bombs on the web version of C3O to be more gameplay-oriented rather than sandbox-oriented like they are in ZOS on mobiles. So using your group of survivors you might meet up with a soldier who can radio in an airstrike - rather than just clicking on the screen and blowing stuff up like in ZOS :) Although the web version of ZOS could still offer that.

- Google Maps can't work on Steam (or PCs in general, other than in a web browser). This is a challenge because an RTS game like C3O (is intended to be) possibly suits a PC audience better than web or mobile anyway!

Well, that turned into a lot of rambling! :)

cya,
Saxon

headhunter211
Posts: 142
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Re: Will the PC version be "paid for content as well?"

Postby headhunter211 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:05 pm

If I knew enough about coding I would help, but I've only just started learning basic html5 stuff, Java is next and then after that its Python. :cry:
Hearts are wasted, lives are broken, and people go missing.


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